[libhid-discuss] MGE, HID Parser and GPL

[Tom Isaacson]

I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem. I went to look at the MGE
webpage for their HID Parser
(http://www.mgeups.com/opensource/projects/hidparser.htm) and I get a
message saying they were merged with another company and the website is
now www.apc.com. I can't find any reference on here to the HID Parser or
open source projects in general. Does this mean they still own it? Is
the GPL in place?

Assuming it is, what happened to the plans to rewrite the HID parser?
Was any work done on this or is it wide open?

On a different note, I originally found libhid on SourceForge but the
CVS repository there doesn't contain any code. Is this a completely
different project or was it an attempt to use a different repository?

Thanks.

Tom Isaacson

[Charles Lepple]

Post by Tom Isaacson
I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem. I went to look at the MGE
webpage for their HID Parser
(http://www.mgeups.com/opensource/projects/hidparser.htm) and I get a
message saying they were merged with another company and the website is
now www.apc.com. I can't find any reference on here to the HID
Parser or
open source projects in general. Does this mean they still own it?

I am CCing Arnaud - it may be considered property of MGE Office
Protection Systems, which is now part of Eaton.

Post by Tom Isaacson
Is the GPL in place?

In any event, yes, the libhid code is all GPL'd.

Post by Tom Isaacson
Assuming it is, what happened to the plans to rewrite the HID parser?
Was any work done on this or is it wide open?

This effort has stalled, partly because the main consumer of the
libhid project, Network UPS Tools, is GPL'd anyway, and happily using
an older version of the HID parser code.

Post by Tom Isaacson
On a different note, I originally found libhid on SourceForge but the
CVS repository there doesn't contain any code. Is this a completely
different project or was it an attempt to use a different repository?

Looks like a completely different project.

[Tom Isaacson]

I just came across a previous discussion about this in 2007:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.libhid.general/88/match=gpl

The suggestion then was to replace HID parser with the code from lsusb,
and "ask the guys who wrote that if we can use their code and license it
under the Artistic license". Did anyone contact them about this?

Tom Isaacson

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Lepple [mailto:clepple at ghz.cc]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:00 PM
To: Tom Isaacson
Cc: libhid-discuss List; Arnaud Quette
Subject: Re: [libhid-discuss] MGE, HID Parser and GPL

Post by Tom Isaacson
I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem. I went to look at the MGE
webpage for their HID Parser
(http://www.mgeups.com/opensource/projects/hidparser.htm) and I get a
message saying they were merged with another company and the website is
now www.apc.com. I can't find any reference on here to the HID
Parser or
open source projects in general. Does this mean they still own it?

I am CCing Arnaud - it may be considered property of MGE Office
Protection Systems, which is now part of Eaton.

Post by Tom Isaacson
Is the GPL in place?

In any event, yes, the libhid code is all GPL'd.

Post by Tom Isaacson
Assuming it is, what happened to the plans to rewrite the HID parser?
Was any work done on this or is it wide open?

This effort has stalled, partly because the main consumer of the
libhid project, Network UPS Tools, is GPL'd anyway, and happily using
an older version of the HID parser code.

Post by Tom Isaacson
On a different note, I originally found libhid on SourceForge but the
CVS repository there doesn't contain any code. Is this a completely
different project or was it an attempt to use a different repository?

Looks like a completely different project.

[Charles Lepple]

Post by Tom Isaacson
The suggestion then was to replace HID parser with the code from lsusb,
and "ask the guys who wrote that if we can use their code and
license it
under the Artistic license". Did anyone contact them about this?

No, that was the last email we got from Frederick Rei?.

Xiaofan brings up a good point, though. If your HID device is just
using the HID protocol as a wrapper for serial-over-USB (that is,
there are only a few reports, and they all need to be read or written
at the same time), then most of the HID parser code is irrelevant
anyway. It was really intended for Power Device Class devices like
UPSes which have a complex hierarchy of usage IDs, where you only need
to fetch a select few usage IDs in your inner loop.

[Arnaud Quette]

2009/8/25 Charles Lepple <clepple at ghz.cc>

Post by Tom Isaacson
I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB

Post by Tom Isaacson
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem. I went to look at the MGE
webpage for their HID Parser
(http://www.mgeups.com/opensource/projects/hidparser.htm) and I get a
message saying they were merged with another company and the website is
now www.apc.com. I can't find any reference on here to the HID Parser or
open source projects in general. Does this mean they still own it?

I am CCing Arnaud - it may be considered property of MGE Office Protection
Systems, which is now part of Eaton.

sadly, no! otherwise, I would have tried the license conversion effort.
the carve out only included licensing and sub licensing of the various
software, not the copyright ownership...

so the hidparser code rewrite is still the only option for relicensing
libhid.
this and the authors approval.

Is the GPL in place?

Post by Tom Isaacson
In any event, yes, the libhid code is all GPL'd.
Assuming it is, what happened to the plans to rewrite the HID parser?

Post by Tom Isaacson
Was any work done on this or is it wide open?

This effort has stalled, partly because the main consumer of the libhid
project, Network UPS Tools, is GPL'd anyway, and happily using an older
version of the HID parser code.
On a different note, I originally found libhid on SourceForge but the

Post by Tom Isaacson
CVS repository there doesn't contain any code. Is this a completely
different project or was it an attempt to use a different repository?

Looks like a completely different project.

indeed.
at first glance, this seems to be anincomplete and abandoned c++
implementation... also gpl'ed.

cheers,
Arnaud

[Xiaofan Chen]

Post by Tom Isaacson
I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem.

I do not think libhid really works under Windows right now. Even
if might work after some hack, it is not a good option for Windows
because the need of libusb-win32 driver. It is much better to use
platform specific HID API for Windows.

[Tom Isaacson]

Yes, I've tried libusb-win32 and found that if I have iTunes installed
as well then I get a BSOD when I run the test app. Judging by the bug
tracker quite a few people are having similar problems. In fact,
Microsoft's actually requested a fix:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2812389&group_id=78138&
atid=552262

I was actually thinking of using the existing libhid code running on
libusb for Linux and OS X support but changing the code to use the HID
functions Microsoft has implemented on Windows. This way we can write
our application using the libhid API and not worry about porting issues.
I'm not sure if this is something people would want committed to libhid,
as it somewhat muddies the original intentions of the code.

Unfortunately this is for a commercial application so I can't use libhid
if it's still under GPL...

Tom Isaacson

-----Original Message-----
From: Xiaofan Chen [mailto:xiaofanc at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:13 PM
To: Tom Isaacson
Cc: libhid-discuss at lists.alioth.debian.org
Subject: Re: [libhid-discuss] MGE, HID Parser and GPL

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Tom Isaacson<TIsaacson at nextwindow.com>

Post by Tom Isaacson
I've been looking around for an open source library that provides USB
HID support across Win32, Linux and OS X and libhid seems to fit the
bill, but the GPL is a bit of a problem.

I do not think libhid really works under Windows right now. Even
if might work after some hack, it is not a good option for Windows
because the need of libusb-win32 driver. It is much better to use
platform specific HID API for Windows.

[Xiaofan Chen]

Post by Tom Isaacson
I was actually thinking of using the existing libhid code running on
libusb for Linux and OS X support but changing the code to use the HID
functions Microsoft has implemented on Windows. This way we can write
our application using the libhid API and not worry about porting issues.
I'm not sure if this is something people would want committed to libhid,
as it somewhat muddies the original intentions of the code.
Unfortunately this is for a commercial application so I can't use libhid
if it's still under GPL...

What is the funtion you need from libhid which is not available
in libusb? Is your device a real HID device or those pseudo HID
device? If it is the later case, you can use libusb directly without
the need of libhid. libusb itself is licensed under LGPL 2.1.
http://www.libusb.org/